OzSTOC
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Andrew_02ST on September 04, 2016, 11:24:04 PM
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If you were the rider of an ex police ST1100 with LED auxiliary lights and hand deflectors riding down Macquarie Pass today, you're an idiot!
Rounded me up (in my car) over double lines, and then passed another vehicle to the left of it. Had a pillion as well.
Should you be a member and happen to read this, have a better think next time and don't a) endanger yourself, your pillion, and others, b) drag our name through the mud as 'bloody motorcycle riders'.
:OldMan
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Yeah I hear you....we all see less than desirable (Diplomacy :p) practices on our roads by all manner of road users.
Unfortunately I spend far more time on four wheels than two and shake my head at some of the driving/riding practices witnessed.
Mostly I'm in a work vehicle with colleagues who are non riders and if a car slips around on doubles it rarely rates a big mention unless it was blatantly unsafe.......but when a bike does it my colleagues are straight onto them and how unsafe motorcycle riders are etc etc.......hence we all get tared with the same brush.
For me personally....I just cannot overtake on double lines regardless of how safe it may or may not be at the time. This has irritated other riders behind me in the past I'm sure, but I just won't do it....and not just due to the legal or safety complication but the appearance of the practice towards our passion.
:beer
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Agree wholeheartedly Andrew I see it up here as well also guys wearing Territory uniform of singlet shorts and thongs obviously don't value their feet. :dred11.
paul
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A friend of mine put it this way. I am amazed there are not more collisions. (Not many are accidents)
Sent from my iPad
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:dred11
I am also one to happily sit behind any number of vehicles until such time as I am able to legally overtake. Doulble lines are there for the safety of all road users to show its potentially unsafe to overtake. I agree wth Andrew ST2UP and everyone else that it gives everyone who rides a bad name to those that don't.
PULL YOUR HEAD IN if you are an OzSTOCer, and please don't wear our group jacket to identify yourself as 1 of us if you take offence at the comments here and go and do this again on your next ride. it maybe your last..
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:dred11
I am also one to happily sit behind any number of vehicles until such time as I am able to legally overtake. Doulble lines are there for the safety of all road users to show its potentially unsafe to overtake. I agree wth Andrew ST2UP and everyone else that it gives everyone who rides a bad name to those that don't.
PULL YOUR HEAD IN if you are an OzSTOCer, and please don't wear our group jacket to identify yourself as 1 of us if you take offence at the comments here and go and do this again on your next ride. it maybe your last..
Well said sirThe only problem is they will do it again and it will be an innocent person who gets killed never them. :dred11 :dred11
paul
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Should this not be in another section :think1
Will not comment on the topic as my views differ somewhat 8)
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Yep, it's not something that can be defended so I don't know why you'd bother... Good to see the majority of respondents so far are all on the right side of the lines!
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Crossing double lines is something I've never done intentionally in 51 years of riding and I don't condone the practice at all.
But why stop at crossing double lines.
What about illegal use of bulbs for our lights, illegal positioning of spot/driving lights, illegal number of spot/driving lights, illegal fitting of external fuel tanks, speeding, ...Lets not get into an argument about degrees of illegality, all of the above could have dire consequences for us and oncoming traffic.
Come on, who wants to throw the first stone. And why not throw it on a more appropriate forum.
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As Lionel said and to quote some religious text from some person .... "judge not others lest ye be judged your self" .... or something to that effect.
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I think he said ' Blessed are the Cheese Makers'
Oh C'mon Brian lets go to the STowning........
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Brian,
It's no laughing matter but I can't help it.
:rofl :rofl
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I think he said ' Blessed are the Cheese Makers'
Oh C'mon Brian lets go to the STowning........
Too clever for words! :grin
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I am sure we all have stories of crazy things we have seen. I sure do. I think crossing double lines is one of the craziest. I have a simple philosophy and if everyone followed it we would have a lot less collisions of all kinds.
Do the right thing all the time. No exceptions. No speeding. No double lines. No illegal modifications.
Seems simple to me.
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... passes ppopeye a stone... :thumb
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Will you people stop picking on my future customers :spank :eek How am I to build a nice retirement fund if there isn't enough of the lower gene pool to go around :fp :grin
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..... I have a simple philosophy .....
One of my brothers-in-law also had a simply philosophy when he was on-the-job. Simple (he said) he would never book anyone for doing something that he would do, as a result he never booked anyone. Fair to say, he never had any TOG, TMU, HPU roles, so was not exposed to many offending drivers, but after 35 years you reckon he could have issued at least one TIN.
Bit like another mate who was in the MFB for 20 years before he ever pointed a hose at a fire (except for training).
Some blokes have a hard life.
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Are you trying to restart the Three Letter Acronym game? :eek
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I've guessed MFB is Metropolitan Fire Brigade
TMU Taffic Management Unit?
HPU Highway Patrol Unit?
TOG?
TIN Traffic Infringement Notice?
sent using Tapatalk
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TOG would be traffic operations group.
paul
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:p
Brian,
It's no laughing matter but I can't help it.
:rofl :rofl
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Quote from: Gadget on September 07, 2016, 07:07:16 AM (http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=11244.msg1207523#msg1207523)<blockquote>I've guessed MFB is Metropolitan Fire Brigade
TMU Taffic Management Unit?
HPU Highway Patrol Unit?
TOG?
TIN Traffic Infringement Notice?
TOG was the Victorian name used from about the eighties. I think its the TMU now. Who knows as Ive lost track</blockquote><blockquote>
</blockquote>
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Are you trying to restart the Three Letter Acronym game? :eek
I hope not. I found the TLA game very boring.
I've guessed MFB is Metropolitan Fire Brigade
TMU Taffic Management Unit?
HPU Highway Patrol Unit?
TOG?
TIN Traffic Infringement Notice?
Yep!
Yep!
See below!
Yep!TOG would be traffic operations group.
paul
Correct!
.... I think its the TMU now. Who knows as Ive lost track ......
Currently the HPU.
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I only just came across this thread whilst checking the up coming rides, so I'm a little late, but I'll risk the criticism by throwing in my 2c.
Of course double lines are put there for a reason, but they have to take into consideration all road users.
This includes for example, a truck that wants to overtake another truck. Of course they can't single out special overtaking sections specifically for fast accelerating motorcycles.
So my opinion is that common sense and circumstance prevails.
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I never overtake on double lines, even if the road ahead is clear. I am happy to sit behind a slower driver until the line reverts to a single again. It's only a few minutes delay at most, and overtaking lanes are reasonably spaced on highways to allow overtaking safely anyway.
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Well said kev i had a near miss near fernvale on my way to work a week ago with a car overtaking two cars at once on double lines. The reason the double lines were there is because it was going in to a corner and thats why he didn't see me coming the other way.
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
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I only just came across this thread whilst checking the up coming rides, so I'm a little late, but I'll risk the criticism by throwing in my 2c.
Of course double lines are put there for a reason, but they have to take into consideration all road users.
This includes for example, a truck that wants to overtake another truck. Of course they can't single out special overtaking sections specifically for fast accelerating motorcycles.
So my opinion is that common sense and circumstance prevails.
Common Sense geez I`d love to experience that. Don't see too much these days, nor a bit of courtesy.
Everyday we all see the amount of numbnuts on the road, and that's all users, cars bikes trucks, expect them, allow for them and ignore them, its important not to get caught in their stupidity . Enjoy the drive/ride
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Hmmmm . . . Never break the road rules . . . Simple . . .
Consider this: travelling along the road approaching a T intersection. You are on the continuing section of road and turning onto the leg of the T . . You turn and lo and behold just as you get on to the new road there are some parked cars against the kerb (more then likely they are illegally parked) and smack down the middle of the road for 250 meters are double lines. The road is not wide enough to go around the parked cars witout crossing the double lines. A couple of cars have followed you around the corner and are right behind you.
What would you do?
Common sense says if safe, go over the doubles and continue on, however if you never, ever break the road rules you could be sitting there for a long time? Or is there a road rule that allows you to cross over double or an unbroken line?
A similar situation would arise if you were going to a house on the other side of the double lines.
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Dopending on the State, I think under those conditions , and it is safe to do then crossing the double line is permitted.
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Dopending on the State, I think under those conditions , and it is safe to do then crossing the double line is permitted.
Thanks Brock. I assume that, in those States you refer to, the times or conditions whereby one may legally cross double or an unbroken line are clearly stated?
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Here is the link to WA Rules.
http://www.roadrules.rsc.wa.gov.au/road-rules/continuous-lines (http://www.roadrules.rsc.wa.gov.au/road-rules/continuous-lines)
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Terrific info Brock, I am happy with that . . . Also gave me some new info re the edgeline. Thank you.
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Also of note is the bit that pertains to those of us who Marshal pushbike events, is the bit about OK to cross the doubles to pass pushies if safe to do so.
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Quote from: STroppy on November 25, 2016, 06:57:23 PM (http://ozstoc.com/index.php?topic=11244.msg1211487#msg1211487)<blockquote>Hmmmm . . . Never break the road rules . . . Simple . . .
Consider this: travelling along the road approaching a T intersection. You are on the continuing section of road and turning onto the leg of the T . . You turn and lo and behold just as you get on to the new road there are some parked cars against the kerb (more then likely they are illegally parked) and smack down the middle of the road for 250 meters are double lines. The road is not wide enough to go around the parked cars witout crossing the double lines. A couple of cars have followed you around the corner and are right behind you.
What would you do?
Common sense says if safe, go over the doubles and continue on, however if you never, ever break the road rules you could be sitting there for a long time? Or is there a road rule that allows you to cross over double or an unbroken line?
A similar situation would arise if you were going to a house on the other side of the double lines.
Hmmm. First thought is to redefine never break the rules: to never deliberately and culpably break the rules. In the case above you dont have a lot of choice.
Second thought is that common sense isnt that common.
Third one is that not many drivers/riders in any state know the correct way to cross or not a single continuous line. Stay safe everyone.
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Hummm...thoughtful read.
Interesting isnt it to re-ride a road which once was divided by a majority of single broken line marking only to find it has been re-surfaced and in some cases, widened and vast lengths single white line replaced with double white lines and the overall speed limit reduced as well. I believe this is done to keep us safe and that the judgement to replace broken lines with unbroken double lines is made from a worst case scenario, regardless of its risk percentile.
Much like the now education standards in Australia which contribute to us being the clever country which are working sooo well. :Stirpot
Just a thought, the can :-)
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A few anecdotes re. road rules from me.
Anecdote 1
Back in the 80's one of my Road Traffic Authority (VIC) colleagues was tasked with the responsibility of writing a plain English, easy to understand / follow version of the road rules.
Something where you didn't need to read a rule, eg. Rule 197, section A, sub-section (i), go to end of rule, read exceptions, go to definitions, put in book-marks, go backwards and forwards, and forwards and backwards from book-mark to book-mark, and then still not understand.
After six months he had shortened the 480 page road rule booklet, to over 750 pages. TRUE
Anecdote 2
Skip to the early 2000's, I sat on a committee compromised of State Road Authority and Police Department representatives from each State and NZ, and a Local Government representative from Victoria (me).
At one meeting, there was much discussion about the interpretation of double lines. The NSW Police rep. advised that he would not instruct his officers to penalise a driver for turning right or U-turning over double line, his reasoning was that the NSW road rules did not prohibit such manoeuvres, the rule prohibited driving to the right of double lines, not crossing them, and crossing them was not driving to the right. TRUE
Anecdote 3
Skip 5 years or so, VicRoads was holding a Workshop to introduce the new rule re. continuous lines (to align with other States).
The Workshop was attended by Local Government reps (me again) from Melbourne metropolitan Councils and Police Regions.
After around a one hour presentation by three or four VicRoads reps, PowerPoint slides, videos and white-board examples on what drivers could do, couldn't do re. continuous lane lines, edge lines, centre lines, etc. we were asked, "Are there any questions?" Most questions were relevant, some mundane.
One question from a Police Traffic Management Unit Senior Sergeant was interesting, "What's the definition of a continuous line?" VicRoads answer, "There isn't one, when applying the road rule a Police officer need to apply some judgement and discretion."
TMU Sen Sgt, "Well if I can see the end of the line, it's not continuous, and I won't be instructing officers to issue a penalty notice for crossing a line if they can see the end of it." TRUE
Anecdote 4
Skip to present day, in my current office (still in Local Government) there is still discussion re. the difference between continuous or continual. TRUE
Mind, this only occurs when I get bored, feel like a laugh and want hear the brainiacs argue. TRUE
Might be time I retired. TRUE
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Might be time I retired. TRUE
Oh! In that case before you pick up your bat n ball and beetle off...any chance of getting all the 'C' road line marking in Victoria the same as the C543? ;-*
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Here is the link to WA Rules.
[url]http://www.roadrules.rsc.wa.gov.au/road-rules/continuous-lines[/url] ([url]http://www.roadrules.rsc.wa.gov.au/road-rules/continuous-lines[/url])
From that link:-
"If the centre/dividing lines are continuous, do not cross that line unless you are turning right (i.e. to leaving or entering the road) or making a U-turn. The same applies if there is a continuous line on the left of a broken or dotted centre line"
I always thought it was illegall to do a U turn over a continuous line???
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From my soapbox. How about a set of truly national road rules
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From my soapbox. How about a set of truly national road rules
:clap
You know that will never happen in our lifetimes. :OldMan
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From my soapbox. How about a set of truly national road rules
A nice idea, it is supposed to be happening which is why NSW got rid of yellow unbroken lines and Victoria changed their give way to turning vehicles laws.
Until the Feeds are give sole jurisdiction to set the rules, there will be discrepancies.
Cheers,
Gary
sent using another of Gadget's gadgets.
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Yellow lines are still used in the Alpine areas for obvious reasons . . .
It is absolutely rediculous that Australia's road rules differ from State to State/Territories . . There many things that should be uniform across our country . .
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When the six states federated in 1901 they gave the new federal government specific (but concurrent) powers (most in s51 of the Constitution) and these did not include vehicle traffic legislation.
Gadget is correct. The states will have to agree to the federal government taking the lead.
Practically, the federal government usually achieves consensus by issuing/withholding grants (bullying tactic) with the result that the states pass their own legislation adopting the federal legislation. There is nothing to prevent the same states changing their minds at a later date.
Australia's territories were not parties to the creation of the Commonwealth of Australia, and they do not have the same powers as the states. The territories are even more dependent on the federal government for funding and by inference more susceptible to interference by the federal government into domestic legislation.
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It is absolutely rediculous that Australia's road rules differ from State to State/Territories . . There many things that should be uniform across our country . .
http://www.ntc.gov.au/roads/rules-compliance/the-australian-road-rules/ (http://www.ntc.gov.au/roads/rules-compliance/the-australian-road-rules/)
The Australian Road Rules
The Australian Road Rules (ARRs) contain the basic rules of the road for motorists, motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians, passengers and others.
The NTC reviews the Australian Road Rules annually.
Background
The Rules were first approved in 1999 by the former Australian Transport Council (now the Transport and Infrastructure Council). The Council consists of the ministers responsible for road traffic matters in each state and territory, and of the Commonwealth Minister responsible for transport matters.
These are model laws that have no legal effect. They form the basis of Road Rules of each Australian state and territory. For the most part, each state and territory has copied the Rules into their own laws, however, not every provision of the Rules has been copied exactly in each state and territory. Also, there are a number of provisions in the Rules that specifically leave certain matters to state and territory governments to determine.
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Somebody is talking common sense and not the holy bible. With 200hp on 350kg all up you can and do safely what is stupid in a car. Most any car.
Of course double lines are put there for a reason, but they have to take into consideration all road users.
This includes for example, a truck that wants to overtake another truck. Of course they can't single out special overtaking sections specifically for fast accelerating motorcycles.
So my opinion is that common sense and circumstance prevails.
[/quote]
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Why is this topic in this section? really after all this time and its been moved to ozSTOC evenets national and local???
This is not an event of any more significance than someone getting a tax return with a cheque.
THIS is not an EVENT. Its not a ride in or an RTE or a FarRide or an IBA or a date for a few riders to meet for a coffee. Its not a new modle release in your home state or anything thats even close to an event. Its a moan and a hissyfit in the first place.
IT does not belong in here.
And if your not keeping one step ahead of the shit drivers ,riders and taxi driversuni students and dumb prickson the roads in this country with its piss poor learning and road education ethics then your just a targator.
This topic still needs to be moved back in the general population. Its not an event of significance for this state.
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This topic still needs to be moved back in the general population. Its not an event of significance for this state.
I would have thought it should be in "General" or "Off Topic"
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Good point Gatey, no-one has picked that up. A common problem when you read hundreds of new posts.
It will be moved now.
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Hi Brock
Nothing wrong with the guys who have to wade through all this stuff/ posts etc. More to do with New Topic osters getting their topic in the proper place in the first place Brock. You obviously keep a close eye on all posts mate. Well done.
Are you getting a ride in this long weekend?
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Not a long weekend for me, work as usual on friday, tho I may just ride to work...
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Mountain of work on here but Boss said enough and sent us off for a good break.
Ride to work? go the longest way possible Brock
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I have finally read this post from start to finish.
1/ the original poster made comment about the person being reckless. In that particular situation maybe the rider WAS being reckless and needs to pull their head in.
I think we can all agree there are some idiots out there who do give us all a bad name and this might well have been one of those times.
2/ bikes and cars are not the same. thy each have different advantages and disadvantages. The advantages of a bike from my perspective is great acceleration and deceleration. Great frontal visibility ( can see well and uninterrupted). This leads to the bike being able to undertake manuvers that a car should not attempt.
3/ road speed limits and line markings are set for the middle 70% of road users .... tin tops with average driving skills and equipment. This puts pressure on those who are not skilled or are driving vehicles not suited to the speed limit or in marking situation like trucks or learner drivers etc. It also penalises the other percentage who have vehicles that can perform much better than the cars. eg motorbikes.
my personal opinion is that if it is safe to do so there is no problem with overtaking on a solid unbroken line where the vehicle in front is a) driving under the speed limit, b) causing danger by dropping gravel ( from a truck) or spewing stones from the road edge (eg 4wd) or being stuck behind a dirty filthy diesel fume spewing shitbox or other situations where the rider is in a situation that places either harm or major delay.
I have .... and will continue to..... over take vehicles such as above on a solid line. I have been stuck behind a car doing 60 kph near the Gympie speed reduced section. This was so incredibly frustrating that I had cars sitting on MY tail because the dic#wad n the car was doing 20 UNDER the limit. Guess what ..... first opportunity I overtook him. I reckon he was thinking in his mind that I should pull MY head in because I was dangerous. Not saying the original poster was doing this.
I am not saying we should abandon the road rules and let anarchy prevail but there does need to be some understanding that there are times when ....on a bike .... it is safe to break or bend the road rules.
A rule is a statement made by someone telling others what they believe others should do. The rules are not sacrosanct never to be changed but are statements that need to be challenged to ensure they are still valid over time. If the rule is still valid then keep them but if the rules needs to be changed then change them and if there needs (or can be) a variation or separation of elements in a rule that makes life easier then follow that path as well. Take the lane filtering laws ....... not so long ago anyone who lane filtered could and would have been called a law breaker!
*** Hops off soap box and goes and gets a beer****
http://ozstoc.com/Smileys/default/beer.gif (http://ozstoc.com/Smileys/default/beer.gif)
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Worst of all is being stuck behind a B-Double hauling live sheep, shitting and weeing their way to their fate . .
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Truckload of pigs stinks worse... luckily at the time I was in a car, and first stop was car wash in the next town.
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Truck load of chooks ain't much fun either as they squirt out the side and there is a snow storm of feathers.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
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Truck load of cooks ain't much fun either as they squirt out the side and there is a snow storm of feathers.
I gotta agree- cooks are the worst!
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Chooks, darn it, chooks.
Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk
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Cow and Pig exhaust is pretty grim as well.
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Chooks, darn it, chooks.
:rofl :p
Sack your predictive texter.
I see Siri is being taught Cricket! Maybe she can help if you'd go over to the dark side of phones. :grin
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So why would you be riding/driving so close behind a stock truck that you would get covered in crap/urine/feathers. Back off a bit until you can pass on the other side of the road away from any spray.
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Couldn't overtake at the time, too much oncoming traffic.. just had to wear it on bonnet, windscreen, grill, roof.....
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So why would you be riding/driving so close behind a stock truck that you would get covered in crap/urine/feathers. Back off a bit until you can pass on the other side of the road away from any spray.
Gateway Motorway, peak hour, it overtook me in the adjacent lane, then I had to overtake it, etc etc.
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So why would you be riding/driving so close behind a stock truck that you would get covered in crap/urine/feathers. Back off a bit until you can pass on the other side of the road away from any spray.
to get past it!
when you are out western QLD and the truck is doing 90 kph and the cattle are pissing and shitting everywhere and the smell is so rank behind the truck you have no option other than to either overtake it ASAP or stop for five minutes, catch up to it in ten minutes, stop for five minutes, catch up to it in 10 minutes adnausium (sp?).
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Safe drive
Profound!
This is starting to look like an advert on every post.
Have you got an ST?