Group Riding.. a growing concern...

[Diesel]

I have just been reading a few commentaries on the (local) internet where many experienced riders say they are not interested in doing group rides anymore.


This is quite a shame for me because this OzSTOC Club you are registered with right now, was founded on a few riders getting together for lunch or coffee, and enjoying the ride to get there - either solo, or as a group of friends on magnificent STs.


I do, however, understand totally the reasons they stated for this. The crux of their arguments were based around (basically), "The stupidist things I have ever seen have been when riding in a group!"


Most gave accounts of events that sparked this way of thinking, but it pretty well came down to this summary:


Testosterone does not mix with:
     a) alcohol
     b) machines with awesome power-to-weight ratios - in this case, motorcycles.


Now - leaving "a) alcohol" out (coward punches at the pub etc) - they explained that in many typical group rides, there are the Mick Doohan wannabes, the "main" pack, and the dawdlers.


The main pack and dawdlers are fine, but the Mick Doohan wannabes, many times, out-ride themselves to keep up with the best riders and save face - sometimes to the massive detriment of not only themselves - but the entire group.


This mainly occurs in groups made up of (amongst others) crotch rockets and young fellas!


Ego and pride seem to set the bar - leaving experience and skill to cross their fingers and hope for the best.


Thankfully, I have heard nothing but fine reports back from all of our ST group rides. I thinks STs seem to attract experienced and friendly types who have ridden more miles than you can count, and don't feel the need to have to prove anything through ability and speed.


Our National Rides all seem to have a wonderful, resounding note of excitement about them, and skillful and courteous riders you all seem to be.



I'll ride with you guys ANY DAY! Thanks for not causing any concern out there when we all throw on the OzSTOC shirts and meet up somewhere for lunch.     


Anyways - thanks for reading this commentary - have you had a great/not so great "Group Ride" experience?


Tell us about it below.   


Cheers, Diesel

[Biggles]

I've ridden with a couple of the mixed brigade.  My experience was that those needing to speed went out to the front very early on and then stopped for a smoke while they waited for the rest of us.  But I'm sure you're right, that there are some mad groups, and it's too bad those folk dropping out joined up with the wrong groups to start with.  I think most riders needing to set records on Mt Glorious etc do it by themselves or in small groups of like minded riders.  When (if) I see them in my mirrors I wave them past and they appreciate that.
Natural selection is a powerful remedy.

[Greencan]

Evenin' Dave et al

Well I for one dont do big rides groups. Why.
More blokes = mores gizzling about how others ride,
More blokes = longer lines at the servo dunnies to take a p15s
More blokes = longer lines at the bakery to order a cuppa to replace the p15s
I could go on, but you get the drift 

Ciao the can:-)

[Wombattle]

Group rides are awesome there just needs to be some communication up front dealing with tempo etc. That way the people who decide the ride style isn't for them don't go or haven't got an excuse to beatch.  Testosterone can play too. For example, I led a HOG ride through Walcha for an west east run on the Oxley. There were about 12 of us and for one reason or another I was actually on my Super Tenere.  The plan, coffee and fuel at Walcha, no rush. Leaving there ride together but self seed for the fun bit based on how each rider wanted to tackle it but we stuck together until the first "bendy road" sign.

The "group ride" was paused at the first bendy sign and everyone was very clear they were responsible for their own safety and the "group ride" would resume when we all made it to Long Flat Pub.  One rider volunteered to be sweep to keep an eye on the less experienced riders. Some go hard, some don't.  If someone riding near you makes you uncomfortable, let them go. If you go hard expect to wait at the other end. 

I for one get a thrill out of seeing the smiles on faces as they roll into the Long Flat and start to share the experience. That's the best part.

Yep, coffee is slow, pies are slow, fuel is slow, bladder retention is strained more. Grizzling is limited unless someone doesn't follow the plan and if they don't, well, they are chipped not grizzled about and it's over.

If I'm in the mood to go nuts and wannabe Doohan I go out on the CBR125R by myself or head down to Eastern Creek for a day.

Group rides are awesome, just have the conversations up front so the expectations are right.

[Chatty]

Mixed emotions on group rides.

Trish and I used to enjoy group rides, but our experiences over the last couple of years have changed our thinking and we now generally ride by ourselves.

I was until recently a member of a club for, shall we say, mature riders (no name, no pack drill) but the local branch rides had degenerated into:
a) majority of group wanting to ride as fast as we can to get to the next stop
b) whinge at the next stop about the smaller group who were "taking too long"
c) let's not provide any guidance for inexperienced riders
d) find a pub for lunch, drink too much and then hop on our bikes to ride home, separately
e) repeat the same next week, with a choice of perhaps 4 or 5 different destinations - in other words, let's keep doing boring rides we've done before
f) no arguing with the ride captain (and branch president) about where we go and what we do

None of these were of interest to Trish or myself, so we had given up on going on the group rides with this club and branch.  A group of us did attempt to start a new branch in an effort to cater to other riders, but various egos got in the way (my appendage is bigger than your appendage sort of thing) and it was stillborn.

I have seen other groups conduct what appeared to be good group rides and I have regretted that personal circumstances have prevented us (to date) going on an OzSTOC ride, just to see what happens.

I think group rides have the potential to be great things but there is the all too real risk of a few idiots spoiling it for everyone.  ST's are (at least in my opinion) not crotch rockets so hopefully the hoon brigade is absent.  To my way of thinking, the biggest hassle with group rides is working out a route and destination that everyone (or at least most) want to do.

[West Aussie Glen]

To me the joy of riding a bike is the freedom it brings, unfortunately with group riding I lose that freedom due to the need to be aware there are bikes both in front and behind you. In smaller groups I can often overcome half of this by being tail end Charlie. So in general I like to ride solo.

[Chatty]

To me the joy of riding a bike is the freedom it brings, unfortunately with group riding I lose that freedom due to the need to be aware there are bikes both in front and behind you. In smaller groups I can often overcome half of this by being tail end Charlie. So in general I like to ride solo.

Yep - what he said!!! 

[Streak]

I mainly like to ride solo, or with 1 or 2 others, but I don't mind group rides, I tend to go right to the front, or hang at the back though, I find most groups are good, have only ever ridden with a couple that I was not comfortable eith

[Wombattle]

Chatty I don't blame you for not riding with that group, sounds awful.  That's not riding it's just transport to lunch. To ride in a group it has to be the right one i.e. like minded.  I completely understand the freedom aspect West Aussie Glen and completely agree with that too.

Most of my riding is alone, not always by choice but it's hard to find takers given the majority of my outings are IBA's. The silence was deafening when I put it out to our HOG Chapter that I was riding from Newcastle to Cairns in a day last week "Anyone want to come?". I felt very free on that ride but enjoy the group riding at the Rallys. I reckon out of the 63,000+ks' I rode last year 50,000+ would have been alone.

So for me the opportunity to ride with a decent group of blokes and share a ride, debrief it over a beer is a bonus. The upcoming OzStoc group IBA ride will be an absolute HOOT!

[Bikebear]

I think there's a difference between group rides and formation riding, if I'm expected to be part of a rolling roadblock and have to ride in close staggered formation.. uh.. forget it. I've seen some of the worst crap happen with this sort of riding.. yeah it looks pretty but it is dangerous, all it takes is one person to lose concentration and all hell can break loose.

Group riding can be good and doesn't require everyone to stick together like a bunch of 1%ers. Leave a wider gap let cars pass and pull in front who cares, so long as the group doesn't lose complete touch with each other all is good.

There are a few people with whom I will ride in a close formation with but they are very few, they trust my riding and I trust them. If I haven't ridden with someone before I won't ride in close formation until I've seen their riding style and feel comfortable enough to ride with them.

[HunterTodd]

I like riding in a small group.  I wouldn't describe our group as a rolling roadblock. we ride nose to tail at a safe distance for the speed. I can't remember ever holding anyone up.

However i ride with a bunch of three guys on Harleys and often find myself frustrated.

They are slow through the corners and gas it up on the straights whereas I would prefer to ride at a more consistent speed. I am a pretty average rider but I find the ST easily out corners the hogs on winding roads and it is frustating to get caught behind them it the windy bits.


Also I find  the insufferable air of superiority that a lot of hog riders have irritating , (there are other bikes on the road apart from Harleys) and the wanna be biker look comical. 

I really need to find a bunch of ST guys to ride with.

[SToz]

My first preference is riding on my own....at my own pace....I've often said....."I ride like a girl".

Truth be know, I would be out-ridden by any girl...but that's the way I like it...I tend to dawdle, cause I enjoy it.... the wind in the face....sort of thing etc....etc..

However, put me on an IBA ride and it's nothing under and nothing over the speed limit. It's a personal challenge.

I used to ride with a group of mates who'd like the twisties.......they rode fast.....I met them at the end. I don't have a problem with that. Each to their own.

But my first OZSTOC group ride was with Streak and Tipsy leaving Toowoomba and heading for Esk. I thought, here we go, what am I in for!

But they were even slower than me....couldn't believe it... ...felt very at home... and it was comforting to know that not everyone is trying to break the sound barrier.

So guys, you restored my faith in Motorcycling Humanity or the Motorcycling Fraternity!

 

Cheers!

[atoyot]

There are a few people with whom I will ride in a close formation with but they are very few, they trust my riding and I trust them. If I haven't ridden with someone before I won't ride in close formation until I've seen their riding style and feel comfortable enough to ride with them.

I agree, as it's a bit like hunting when I used to be a shooter; I'd only go shooting with those whom I'd developed a cautious trust with. There are parallels with bike riding and firearm handling.

[rally]

 
Group riding....well I usually ride with the same 6 chaps who I have been riding with for years..we all ride reasonably quick, we know each others traits and expertise on the bike....(we are all in our 70s) the occassional ride with Ulysses is good but BLOODY SLOW and as such dangerous in BIG groups. I went on the first few Blue Liners ride Wall to Wall with about a 1000 riders (as well as others)  BUT there were so many dickheads riding Harleys (or look alikes) there were so many close shaves with them as well as accidents (running into each other) we will not participate again.   Nice to go on a large ride, with our own group and meet the large group at the destination, much safer.

Rally

[STroppy]

I don't like riding in large groups either . . . I have been to 8 Ulysses' AGM but not ridden in any of their mass rides . . . I did start out on a protest ride earlier this year . . . Protest about the Qld laws re riding in groups of 3 or more etc etc . . . Protest ride here in Canberra . . . Went along as a member of the MRA here . . . Turned out to be mainly Harley riders . . . Some pretty mean looking types amongst them . . . Lotsa nice guys too tho . . Anyways I was last bike (except for Police tailend Charlie FJR) for the first 12 ks or so and then I quietly slipped into a sidestreet and left them to it . . Reinforced my thoughts on large group rides.

Toured Oz in a group of 4, a good size to share accommodation and for seeking help when necessary.

Like to ride with at least one other rider just for safety reasons, but don't mind riding in a group up to about 8 to 10, depending on riders.

I used to lead a group - MadBikers - back in the early to mid 2000's but the group quite often numbered in the 20's and I felt this was a bit too many . . . Delays at fuel n food stops, smokers etc . . A goodly bunch for socialising in the evening though.

These days I ride with a few I can really trust - SAAZ (John), Paul, Tipto, my brother Brian, and there is a couple of others who are no longer in this area that I would happily ride with . . . I trust them, we ride at a reasonably quick pace, know each others style and anticipate what we are about to do, look out for each other, vary between close riding to spaced out (not like That!) . . . Make sure the other riders are not far behind . . . And not off the road or broken down . . .

[Lionel]

I'm happy enough to ride with two others, eg, Wombattle and Skidoooo on the transcontinental ride, and Saaz and Jill for non IBA-specific rides.

[Skip]

I have ridden in a few large group rides. There are definite inherent dangers when it is a LARGE group, 100+ bikes, largest being 750. Apart from the National Rally day ride, of which I have been on NONE  , I would not consider any of our RTE's that I have participated in, as 'group' rides, even though we may ride there in a group. Generally it hasn't been more than about 10 bikes riding together at any stage even though we might end up with 35 bikes at the lunch destination. As others have attested, the ST fraternity is generally mature & level headed and happy to be out together with other likeminded people, with nothing to prove.
To those who haven't yet been on an ST RTE, I would encourage you to go on one and enjoy the experience. Don't let past experiences put you off.
I just wish I had more free time. 

[STeveo]

I will not go with the 'big' group rides any more due to most of the above experiences (plus being overtaken on the left of the lane by dick heads on Hardleys   ) and prefer to ride with small groups. I let the 'boy racers' go and ride at my own pace, we all end up at the same destination anyway, and am able to enjoy the ride far more not having to worry about who is about to overtake me.   
The ST rides I have been on have been great. Everybody keeps to the same pace, with good road spacing, respect, mirror usage, and are a great bunch to ride with. 

 

[Williamson]

There's a Cranbourne to MotoGP ride each year.  This an extract from the Leader (a local community newspaper group in VIC):
Chairman of the ride advisory committee said, "It was a fantastic spectacle, there were about 9500 bikes in the procession ...."

A few years ago a mate said that it might be cool to join the ride, we did, never again, this is what it looks like:


There was stupid behaviour like this:


Nuff said ...............

 

[Brock]

I was in a ride like that (sort of) I was right at the front, and a bike in front of me did the wheely trick as we headed off. The ride terminated at the Joondalup Police academy, The coppers in the lead car  ( one of them was the Commish..) and approached the rider and gave him a talking to for some time. You could see him wilt.. Dont think he tried that again in a hurry..

[Brian]

I find this one a good read

[TAZZIEBAZ]

I don't like riding in very large groups, I much prefer to ride with a friend or just a few riders who I know and have learned to trust. Prior to moving to Tassie I rode a couple of times in Queensland with groups who mainly rode sportsbikes, and I was hard pressed chasing them all day on my then XVS 1100 cruiser..........big mistake! I've ridden a couple of times down here with groups of twenty or so riders, but it's not for me, you'll always get some one in the group that just has to show how bloody stupid they are. I'd ride with a larger group of ST riders anytime though, because most ST riders are not out to break any records, just ride and enjoy it! I don't mind riding on my own but I do prefer to have another rider/friend with me for company, besides, someone's gotta pay for coffee!!

[Marcus]

What is considered a group? 2 or more bikes? 20 bikes?

I ride with 2-4 people alot and don't have an issue

I ride with alot of people here Greencan, AJ and the rest on the RTE and don't have an issue.

I ride with the OZSTOC Rally group, and don't have an issue.

I don't ride with strangers!

[Streak]

Here are three very good reasons why our group rides work well:

National Rally 2012 Group Ride

OZSTOC RTE

National Rally 2013 Group Ride

OZSTOC Annual General Meeting 2013

National RAlly 2014 Group Ride

OZSTOC National Rally Ride

as far as i am concerned this is how group rides should behave and run!

plus marcus has excellent taste in music!

[ST.George]

Quote from: Chatty on May 10, 2014, 05:02:46 PM<blockquote>

Quote from: West Aussie Glen on May 10, 2014, 04:59:14 PM<blockquote>To me the joy of riding a bike is the freedom it brings, unfortunately with group riding I lose that freedom due to the need to be aware there are bikes both in front and behind you. In smaller groups I can often overcome half of this by being tail end Charlie. So in general I like to ride solo.
</quote>
Yep - what he said!!! 
</quote>

What they said! My perfect pillion becomes unhappy if I do anything that resembles racing and I agree with that completely when Mother Terese is aboard. When solo, I don't like going fast on roads that are of dubious quality that I haven't been on before. The group ride is good here in that if you have a good local rider in the lead who knows the roads then it is very enjoyable to follow, if said leader is not trying to ride too fast. Lastly, I am always looking for things to photograph and that usually entails stopping and smelling the flowers and having a stretch etc. This usually doesn't suit group riding.

However, I remember fondly last year when JWM mentioned a good ride thru Batemans Bay and then inland I expressed my interest and ended up with about ten riders and he said to me if you want to stop for photos we'll just follow you and stop whenever you like. Now that was what I call pressure-free riding. Unfortunately, my daughter had forgotten to put the SD card back in my camera and the camera's memory was full. So John lead the way and all was well but somehow the scooter lost the group and we hoped he was OK and he was.

So, I prefer solo riding unless the group values safety first and adrenalin last. However, having said all that there are special occasions when I like to the experience the power/weight ratio of the STeed but those opportunities are rare and definitely solo.